Call for comments: Distance education in veterinary colleges

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Comments due January 13, 2025

The AVMA Council on Education® (COE®) is seeking comment on the potential use of distance education in veterinary educational programs that lead to a DVM, VMD, or equivalent degree.  

Distance education, as defined by the federal government, uses technology "to deliver instruction to students who are separated from the instructor or instructors and to support regular and substantive interaction between the students and the instructor or instructors, either synchronously or asynchronously." 

Allowing distance education to any degree in veterinary colleges accredited by the AVMA COE would require a substantive change to the COE’s scope of recognition as a programmatic accreditor recognized by the United States Department of Education. This would require the development and federal approval of policies, procedures, and accreditation standards to include evaluation and assessment of veterinary medical education delivered through technology.  

The COE believes consideration of such a change requires broad input from across the veterinary community. The council is committed to ensuring the highest-quality education for students, and to engaging with those who share this goal. 

The council is seeking comments on the potential use of distance education to deliver instruction, in whole or in part, to veterinary students seeking a DVM, VMD, or equivalent degree.  

To comment, fill out and submit this survey no later than 11:59 p.m. on January 13, 2025. Given the large number of comments expected, please note that there is a 350-word limit.

Comments

Roy Wilson, DVM
December 13, 2024 Permalink

Distance education for veterinary colleges

Having taught in both in-person and online settings, the quality of information exchange in in-person classes is much better than online settings. I imagine there are many reasons for this, but for me the eye contact and body language of the students does a lot to show their understanding and grasp of the subject matter. With the amount of information a veterinary student needs to master, not just hear but master, in a few years is astounding. To ask them to do that in a remote style is setting them up for failure.

When these students graduate after being taught in remote setting, we learned from our COVID experience that these students are much farther from being ready for clinical practice than students that attended in-person settings.

I am highly against the AVMA accrediting online education programs leading to a degree as a doctor in veterinary medicine.

Silene St. Bernard
December 13, 2024 Permalink

Distance Education for Veterinary Colleges

As a Regional Medical Director who works extensively with recent veterinary graduates, they are already coming into practice with a great deal need for mentorship in many areas of clinical medicine, including, but not limited to: clinical skills, surgery and dentistry. I firmly believe that distance education would make this challenge significantly worse since most of the work of veterinary medicine requires hands on skills in terms of patient evaluation, behavior and handling. I do not believe that distance education is capable of providing the level of expertise needed to develop veterinarians that are able to practice and there is no bandwidth or training for practicing DVMs to provide it on the ground.
I am concerned that this will erode the quality of medicine and in turn, the quality of our profession.

Distance education

Although it sounds contradictory, online education using modern pedagogical tools can be more interactive and use higher-level learning principles than classical lectures delivered to a large auditorium. When I went to vet school (long, long ago), most of the didactic education was delivered this way followed by a multiple-choice exams. I did not develop much of a relationship or have interactive experiences with my classroom instructors. It led to memorization of facts, not problem-solving skills. These courses were followed by labs and clinical rotations, which was where my real learning took place. Students today say they "binge and purge" lecture content for exams and often skip class to watch lecture recordings at 2x speed (I guess turning it into their own poorly executed online education). If we can redistribute some course time to online learning and preserve more instructor-led time for higher-level interactivities that better reflect real-life practice, we can graduate students who have more confidence and day-one readiness for practice. I think there is a place for integrating the best of online learning with interactive learning. For example, students could study an online module before class and then the class time with the instructor could be used for interactive case-based scenarios and problem-solving. Or students could watch a module on principles of suturing and knot-tying with video demonstrations and then practice at home using provided models. When they feel they have mastered the skills, they can submit of video of themselves doing the procedure for feedback and grading. If this is completed before a lab, their time in the lab with instructors could be spent on refining technique and answering questions rather than starting from the very beginning and making less progress in the time they have in labs. I do this for a surgery course I teach, and students come to the lab much more advanced in their knowledge and skills. These are examples of how a school's own faculty might teach their on-site students. However, there are also compelling reasons why distance education might enhance vet student education. For example, there are some specialties that have so few individuals in academia that it's not possible for every school to have one. Radiology, behavior, and shelter medicine come to mind, but there are many faculty shortages at various schools. Work-arounds include having non-specialists or even non-expert faculty teach those topics, bringing in outside speakers, ignoring the topic altogether, or distance education. I think there is room for the top expert teachers in various disciplines to create top-notch interactive distance learning opportunities that are made available to vet schools across the globe. I think a lot of those concerned about distance education are envisioning their previous experiences with watching a recording and taking a quiz. High-quality distance education for adult learners these days can provide much deeper learning and assessment.

Distance Education

Julie-this is spot on! People have the vision of what worked for them in the past. Interactive distance education complemented with in-person applications and demonstrations of cognitive and technical skills can be a way to better engage and educate our students. Students now do not have the same learning styles as so many of us, and working in a way THEY can learn is critical.
We need to support each school in their efforts of education-and many need expertise from 'outsiders'. Many specialists cannot afford to leave private practice for academia.

I strongly agree with all of…

I strongly agree with all of this! I have taught several interactive shelter medicine courses online and pre and post course surveys reflected that learning occurred and students enjoyed the courses, and that the courses filled a major curriculum gap. There are many subjects where there is no substitute for hands-on training but for population health where there is no individual patient work, and the students are working from case materials anyway, online learning enables everyone to participate (some people are very uncomfortable speaking up in person). Most of my students had never seen any companion animal outbreak in person and as they are quite rare in any given shelter at any given time, likely would not see one during an elective course or rotation. Online learning allows shelter specialists to share our cases so that others can learn from them. I always design my courses so that students heading into GP will benefit from learning practical ways to manage infectious disease in multi-animal settings, so I believe shelter med distance learning or hybrid learning can benefit all students. Last, online shelter med instruction can increase student understanding of spectrum of care approaches and access to care issues.

There are also several studies supporting this.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27404546/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34977216/

Distance Education

I absolutely believe that well-run distance education, inserted in the right context as a part of a comprehensive training program, can have a valuable place in the provision of veterinary education. However, poorly run distance education, especially if it becomes too major a part of the curriculum, will be highly detrimental, if it significantly replaces effective in person instruction.

Is there a risk of high volume, poorly run distance education? Absolutely. Distance education could easily be regarded as a cheap, easy solution for veterinary schools that are trying to manage budgets, by reducing some of the most expensive components of running a veterinary school: salaries and facilities. Frankly, the opportunity to provide extensive distance education will, I worry, be too tempting for veterinary schools that are trying to minimize budget expenses. Distance education for budgetary rather than educational reasons could very possibly be substandard.

For this reason, I think the AVMA COE needs to consider permitting some distance education, but only in a very tightly regulated fashion: make it a small component of a much more comprehensive education, and make sure that the amount provided has a relatively limited maximum upper limit, and that it is well-justified for educational reasons.

Sarah Deitschel
December 19, 2024 Permalink

Distance learning

am writing to express my significant concerns regarding the shift towards distance learning in veterinary medicine. While I recognize and value the integration of online learning into a traditional curriculum, I firmly believe that face-to-face interactions are crucial in our field, particularly for developing the necessary skills in our future veterinarians.

Having taught veterinary interns for over 15 years, I have witnessed firsthand the impact of online learning during the pandemic. Many recent graduates appear to struggle with direct communications, both with clinicians and clients. They often seem uncomfortable conducting exams in front of clients, which is essential in our profession. I believe that daily interactions with professors and peers play a pivotal role in developing professionalism and communication skills. Furthermore, visual feedback from students allows instructors to gauge the effectiveness of their teaching and interaction, which is traditionally more challenging in a virtual environment.

Although I understand that physical labs will still take place, I am concerned that their frequency and duration may not match those of a conventional curriculum. I believe that students benefit substantially from labs when they have established more than a virtual relationship with their instructors. Additionally, it is alarming to note the significant decrease in NAVLE pass rates over recent years, which could potentially be linked to the reliance on virtual learning mandated during the pandemic. I think blending the best of both traditional and modern educational approaches will ensure that the next generation of veterinarians receives the training they need and deserve.

Courtney Baetge, DVM, DACVAA
December 20, 2024 Permalink

Distance Learning

With the shortage of academic faculty and the large workload placed on these folks, I see a decline in the ability to provide high-quality face-to-face lectures. However, time and experience have shown us that an online-only learning platform does not offer the quality of learning needed at this level of education. I think a hybrid concept may be the solution to this issue. Allowing folks who have expertise in a specific topic within a subject to provide a lecture online for multiple facilities might allow high-quality content but then face-to-face labs, Q&A, and review sessions are mandatory for the student to allow assimilation and application of the content. Body language, working through the thought process, and acknowledgment are needed for students to feel they are supported and to truly integrate at the necessary level.

Distance education

While a well-designed online course can provide a good learning environment and a poorly-executed in-person class can be ineffective, receiving a veterinary education is more than just classwork. In-person veterinary education is necessary to build relationships with peers, house officers from other institutions, and faculty. Students learn how to interact in community, support one another, understand the deep moral and ethical obligation of being a veterinarian, and grow in both knowledge and hands-on skills through shared experiences with a regular cadence. They also are encouraged to connect with students who will be future colleagues in other institutions through organizations such as SAVMA. Of course it is the responsibility of onsite educators to use effective teaching methods based on current pedagogy, and continually improve their ability to design and execute courses in ways that will reach the largest number of students. During my time as an educator, I witnessed many of my colleagues do exactly that.

I have had experience as a clinician/ specialist teaching house officers, as an academician teaching students, as an online educator for paraprofessionals, and as a student and graduate of a degree program (MBA) taught primarily online. I have learned valubale information through both receiving and delivering online training, and am also certain that in-person learning needs to remain at the cornerstone of training competent, capable veterinariary professionals into the future. The AVMA COE should not support distance learning programs as a primary means of educating veterinarians.

Distance learning

I am opposed to distance learning in the four year veterinary curriculum. If allowed, distance learning will be used to the maximum possible as it will afford cost saving. Students already often choose to skip in person attendance and watch recorded lectures. Falling NAVLE pass rates, as mentioned above, are correlated with this trend and I suspect at least partially caused by it.
The relationships with instructors should be prioritized as much as possible during the four years in vet school as well as those with peers. As mentioned, evaluation of students’ understanding and development of clinical skills is best done in person. Collegiality and team work are essential in this profession and can really only be developed in person. It is alarming to note the trend in students feeling unprepared upon graduating. We need to do more to prepare students for real life practice.
Where would all the mentor hours post graduation to come from when these students’ educational holes become pressing once they begin practice?

Distance learning is not a good idea

As a veterinarian who graduated from a traditional in person classroom and laboratory setting with clinical rotations, I am strongly opposed to implementing regular usage of distance learning in veterinary medical curriculums because the quality of the education when you are not present is going to be diluted. Being present for practical labs, questions, and to put hands real patients is essential for preparing well rounded veterinary students.

Changing the scope of accreditation practices to allow for distance learning would also open the doorway to worse regulation, lack of proper oversight, and allow poor quality programs to potentially gain accreditation because they would not have to invest as many resources into providing on-site education. In essence, it would be easier for profit driven programs to proliferate. DVMs graduate with significant debt and that cannot be justified with worsening quality of education.

Students graduate needing a lot of in person first hand mentorship and/or internships to become clinically competent with the education programs available now, so removing a significant portion of the hands on / in person learning is going to lead to even worse preparation and learning. Skills development inherently requires in person experience to develop. Letting students graduate with a DVM via a computer screen is not going to create better doctors. Perhaps more doctors but certainly not better ones. We as a profession need to protect the integrity and quality of our schools so that we have future clinicians that are well trained, well educated, prepared for clinical practice, and have the necessary skills to perform as a doctor.

Distance learning would not add to the experience of the students but rather detract from it. School is an entire experience and students not only need to grow their book learning but also their social spheres. Relationships with their peers grow via in person interactions and are important for helping one another survive the vigors of school.

Distance learning should be limited to only when necessary such as illness requiring students to view a lecture from home but it certainly should not be the norm.

Lenette DiCiaula
December 29, 2024 Permalink

Distance Leari g

As a veterinarian and student mentor, I am strongly opposed to distance learning in veterinary medical curriculums because the quality of the education is going to be diluted. Being present for practical labs with hands on experiences, student /professor questions guidance, clinical experience with real patients and clients is essential for preparing well rounded veterinary students.

Changing the scope of accreditation to allow for distance learning would also open the door to lack of proper oversight, and allow poor quality programs to potentially gain accreditation because they would not have to invest as many resources into providing on-site education.

As I have experienced over the years, many new graduates already need a lot of in person first hand mentorship to become clinically competent. By removing a significant portion of the hands on and person learning their preparation for clinical practice will be further lacking . Skill development in all areas of practice requires in person experience to develop. Letting students graduate with all or a majority of their education online is not going to create better doctors. Distance learning should be reserved only for those short periods of emergency or illness when a lesson may need to be viewed from home.

We as a profession need to protect the integrity and quality of our schools so that we have future clinicians that are well trained, well educated, prepared for clinical practice, and have the necessary skills to perform as a doctor.

Distance learning would not add to the experience of the students but rather detract from it. School is an entire experience and students not only need to grow their book learning but also their relationships and interaction with their peers to excel and grow both in school and after graduation in clinical practice.

In person learning is so much more than just hearing a lecture it is essential to training an excellent veterinarian who can protect both the animals and overall public health. I am strongly against distance learning that will dilute and overall harm the integrity of our fine profession.

Just say NO to distance education

The pre-reqs are getting lower, the navle pass rate is lower, the intensity is lower (why the heck is pass/fail in a doctorate program), schools are coming out of the woodwork and already looking at vpa disaster. Why distance learning is even being brought up is beyond me other than the obvious MONEY. With distance they can cram in more students in enrollment, collect more tuition and expand less effort. This will not fill the vet shortage. We have TONS of graduating vets. There is a shortage bc people are leaving the field. They are not selecting the best and the brightest. They are seeking diversity, they are seeking to fill seats, they are NOT seeking resilience. Age, sex, gender, ethnicity, prior career etc should not matter. Solid academic performance, solid recommendations, experience and PROOF OF RESILIENCY SHOULD MATTER.

Opposed

As a veterinarian who graduated from a traditional in-person program, I strongly oppose making distance learning a regular part of veterinary curriculums. Hands-on labs, real patient experience, and face-to-face mentorship are essential for developing competent veterinarians. Shifting to distance learning risks lowering educational quality, weakening oversight, and enabling profit-driven, low-quality programs. Veterinary school is not just about academics—it’s also about building essential peer relationships through in-person interactions. While distance learning has its place in exceptional circumstances like illness, it should never become the norm. We must protect the integrity of veterinary education to ensure future veterinarians are well-prepared for clinical practice.

Kim Houlding DVM
December 29, 2024 Permalink

Distance ed

Many vet med and pre vet classes need hands on instruction to properly learn. We have really shortchanged education by not using live animals to learn surgery for instance. I am in a college town, and students are thousands in debt and have never performed surgeries.
When I graduated, I had done c sections-sheep and cow, castration horse, cattle, sheep, pigs, dogs and cats. Spay on cats and dogs. And others. Many in my class (1976) started their own practice or bought practices. We also had our senior year divided in 8 week blocks, and two of those were out of school and most of us worked in other practices to gain experience.
This can’t be done on a computer or with plastic models. Depriving students of those real experiences is stealing their tuition.

Jessica Darmofal
December 29, 2024 Permalink

Distance learning

I’m a 2018 grad. When my class was going through our schooling, the mantra of our school and professors was “day one ready”, The goal was that they wanted each student to not just pass the NAVLE, but they wanted us to be able to confidently walk across the graduation stage and directly into a career of our choice feeling prepared. This entailed heavy emphasis on hands on clinical opportunities starting from day one of first year. This approach was highly successful. My class had a 98% pass rate on the NAVLE, and everyone has been highly successful in whatever aspect of medicine they desired. I was able to step into general practice and start helping pets with very little mentoring. I now and several of my classmates are practice owners or medical directors. Several of my classmates are now board certified specialists! Ever since COVID and the forced distance learning, I have seen a shift .I heavily participate in student education as an extern site for 4th year students. I have seen a drastic decline in these students - their knowledge base isn’t there, their surgical skills aren’t there, their confidence isn’t there. These kids are being set up to fail. They are either feeling like they need a residency or internship even before starting work in general practice, or they are entering general practice highly unprepared. This is causing them incredible stress and it’s causing their patients to suffer. Distance learning is NOT going to improve our field - it will further tarnish it!

I believe that distance…

I believe that distance learning can have a place in high quality veterinary education. However, after having taught at multiple veterinary colleges, I also think that it could be used poorly under the guise of "efficiency". To ensure that distance learning is utilized well, it would need to be regulated well, and used to a minimum until the effect on student learning has been thoroughly evaluated. I believe that a major advantage to in person lectures is the development of communication skills along with a better sense of professionalism. Additionally as a lecturer it is much more difficult to assess your own effectiveness during a virtual lecture. Distance learning however could be useful in helping students prepare for hands-on labs, and more complicated lecture material. When I was in veterinary school it was common for our professors to have us study material prior to lectures to make the class sessions more interactive versus them being a standard lecture. I see distance learning / virtual learning providing aide to students in this type of manner. However, it needs to be regulated so that it does not become the primary form of content delivery to students.

Distance Education

As a private practitioner who has mentored new graduate veterinarians I have seen and experienced first hand the effects of distance learning. The associates that I am working with now did much of their didactic learning during the COVID pandemic. I believe their curriculum somewhat failed them and therefore I am opposed to distance learning in veterinary medicine.

We all know that there is a time and place for virtual learning. In certain instances I would argue there are students that may greatly benefit from it during extenuating circumstances. However, I believe the interpersonal relationships, communication techniques, and sense of community with classmates and professors is lost if we go to virtual learning.

Constance Breese
December 29, 2024 Permalink

Distance learning

My veterinary education would have been substantially weakened and diluted by the use of distance learning.
Interacting directly with classmates and instructors enhances the experience and deepens the connections among students and veterinarians.

Reid

In-person lecture learning is essential for veterinary and technical students to grasp complex concepts and establish meaningful connections with instructors and peers. Face-to-face interactions facilitate engagement, discussion, and clarification of doubts. Nonverbal cues, such as body language and tone, convey emphasis and context, enhancing understanding. In-person lectures also promote accountability, motivation, and a sense of community, which are critical for academic success. Additionally, spontaneous questions and debates foster critical thinking and problem-solving skills, ultimately enriching the learning experience for veterinary students. This leads to better retention and application of knowledge.

Distance education

While online lectures allow for students to take in information at their own pace and at a time that is convenient to them, for most students it leads to watching lectures at 2x speed to binge and purge information simply for test taking purposes. Online test taking also leads to insane amounts of cheating which only undermines the grade system the match utilizes and the honorable students. Veterinary education needs to be a mix of hands on and classroom learning from the beginning, which cannot happen in distance learning setting. I don’t support the online education of the Colorado VPA program, and I don’t support an entirely online education for my future colleagues either.

Distance Learning

I am writing to express skepticism in the efficacy of distance learning for the purposes of clinical practice. As someone who worked in a practice that often acted as a clinical rotation/externship for students from many schools, I have personally noticed a substantial gap in education and clinical skills in students in non traditional programs (including workplace -based clinicals) as well as in students who openly note that they “never went to class” and instead, would “watch lectures as they needed”, and in those students taking a more structured educational approach. Unfortunately, these types of models put the onus on the individual student to be in charge of the quality of their own education. It is true that most people who make it to veterinary school have already shown some manner of individual drive, but anyone who thinks students will not rush through modules, lectures, etc if given the opportunity have either not worked with students or have forgotten what it’s like to be a student. Online continuing education is a great example of the area of concern here, as we all know colleagues who simply skip through the material or let it play on mute. The ability to skip in-person lectures is already an issue in some schools, and it does affect the preparedness of the students who take that option. My fear is that opening the door to virtual learning will widen the chasm, and will ultimately lead to graduates who are less and less prepared for clinical practice at the time of graduation.

Distance Education

I have worked with two different veterinarians that experienced COVID-related distance education. Their preparedness was far below expectation and they definitely required more mentoring in real life scenarios to assess in the moment and people interpersonal skills themselves. While the education may occur, the clinical critical skills are definitely lacking and were not on par whatsoever.

Carmen Jane Booth, DVM, PhD
December 29, 2024 Permalink

Distance learning

I work in academia in a med school. Serious issues with student lack of knowledge and ability to interact with people.

Distance Learning in Veterinary Medicine

Having my children go through distance learning through the pandemic, and my husband being and having a young doctor who endured a modified distance learning, I can assure you I have some strong feelings against this avenue of education. Taking out the human interaction is setting up our young colleagues for failure. Meeting classmates, setting up study groups, talking to professors to clarify questions, learning how to interacting with other people helps to learn how to interact with clients if planning on going into clinical medicine and is an important skill to polish up on that some people lack with distanced based learning.

Distance education for colleges of veterinary medicine

I believe that while the pandemic taught us that not every meeting needs to be face-to-face it also taught us that, in many cases, face-to-face meetings are better. There are certain basic, fact-filled, lectures that may be more efficiently and just as effectively delivered by distance methods. Labs, clinical procedures and, in my opinion, didactic material related to medicine and surgery, should be in person. There should be no doubt that entire curricula based on distance learning should not be sanctioned by COE. The challenge for COE, it appears to me, will be to define what material and how much can be delivered by distance learning, and then determining how to evaluate and regulate it. A major challenge, indeed.

Christina Fossitt DVM
December 31, 2024 Permalink

Distance learning

I am concerned with the implementation of distance learning. In a field where new grads already struggle with inexperience, I strongly feel this is a move in the wrong direction. Our students need more hands on and face to face learning in this type of program

Complex Issue of Distance Learning

While distance learning has the potential to break down barriers and expand educational opportunities, I have significant concerns about its potential to compromise the overall quality of education. This could have far-reaching negative implications for veterinarians, clients, patients, and the public's trust in the profession.

Having worked across various facets of veterinary medicine—including developing educational content for both in-person and online learning, teaching residents, veterinary students, veterinary technicians, and practicing in private settings—I recognize the substantial challenges in implementing consistent, high-quality online education.

I do not believe that current university systems are adequately prepared to handle the demands of widescale distance learning, nor do I think the AVMA is currently equipped to monitor and regulate its implementation meaningfully. I also believe that much of veterinary education does not lend itself to a distance learning format. That said, exploring new teaching opportunities in an ever-changing world is essential. Allowing the option for a small portion of veterinary education to be delivered in a distance-learning format as a pilot program seems reasonable. Such an initiative would provide an opportunity to evaluate the system comprehensively.

This evaluation should include quantitative assessments of students' ability to learn and retain information in this format, student and faculty feedback for this format, as well as the AVMA's capacity—both in staffing and expertise—to oversee the numerous educational platforms that could be involved substantively. A carefully planned and optional small-scale, low-stakes rollout could allow universities and the AVMA to gather the necessary data to make informed decisions about the broader adoption of distance learning in veterinary medicine.
I do fully support in-person learning supported by online tools such as additional access to recorded lectures that students attend. Technology is a fantastic tool that can improve education and break down barriers. Thank you, AVMA, for taking a serious look at this complex issue.

Perhaps Hybrid but NO to distance completely

Distance learning has a benefit, offering students an opportunity to restructure the way they learn in an environment that best supports their own academic needs. My biggest concern for distance learning is that the demand for high interpersonal skills, clinical skills and the soft skills that go with veterinary medicine are commonly cultivated as you learn over the 4 year curriculum. Most students will have the minimal necessary knowledge for veterinary medicine after they pass their licensing boards but may not have the needed professional, clinical and social skills to interact with their fellow colleagues, clients and community. I feel that an option for our profession is to utilize real life experience in rotations to help future DVMs learn how to communicate, learn real life clinical skills in real time. I believe the 4 years of traditional veterinary medicine is transitioning and the perfect time is now. Veterinary Medicine requires not only academic excellence, which most students are able to achieve through accredited programs, but also requires significant interpersonal interactions with varying degrees that simply can't be taught distance learning.

Perhaps Hybrid but NO to distance completely

Distance learning has a benefit, offering students an opportunity to restructure the way they learn in an environment that best supports their own academic needs. My biggest concern for distance learning is that the demand for high interpersonal skills, clinical skills and the soft skills that go with veterinary medicine are commonly cultivated as you learn over the 4 year curriculum. Most students will have the minimal necessary knowledge for veterinary medicine after they pass their licensing boards but may not have the needed professional, clinical and social skills to interact with their fellow colleagues, clients and community. I feel that an option for our profession is to utilize real life experience in rotations to help future DVMs learn how to communicate, learn real life clinical skills in real time. I believe the 4 years of traditional veterinary medicine is transitioning and the perfect time is now. Veterinary Medicine requires not only academic excellence, which most students are able to achieve through accredited programs, but also requires significant interpersonal interactions with varying degrees that simply can't be taught distance learning.

Jonathan Dear, DVM, MAS, DACVIM
January 03, 2025 Permalink

Distance learning

I agree with many of the comments above supporting the role of well-designed online or hybrid learning for veterinary education. The reality is that much of current day 'in person' learning is actually happening virtually because some students choose not to attend class in person and many of the resources used to supplement in person learning are online modules, videos or other interactive resources.

Where a 100% online/distance model falls short is in its ability to foster development of relationships. These relationships with classmates and mentors are invaluable and are difficult to cultivate virtually. The support DVM students receive from these interactions are critical to their academic and career successes.

I urge the AVMA COE to resist approval of programs that rely completely on virtual experiences for didactic learning as this move will undermine the happiness and success of our students.

Robert Cherenson, DVM
January 08, 2025 Permalink

Distance education

I unapologetically believe that building a contemporary veterinary medical curriculum around distance education is a very poor alternative to in-person, hands on, group dynamic educational model.
I write for myself, but as a former AVMA COE member and as a former ICVA (previously NBVME) board member and NAVLE contributor, as well as a practitioner for almost 41 years, I have a legitimate and valid perspective on veterinary medical education. Our practice hosts (and has hosted for decades) between 50-100 veterinary externs from across North America and many other countries. This comparative view is most revealing as to student preparedness for real world practice situations.
Students today need more than ever the hands on, dynamic oversight to become the day-1 ready, savvy, cutting edge practitioners of the future. They have a vast arena of disciplines to choose from, and the volume of knowledge, with appropriate interpretation is incredibly expansive.
Veterinary school should be challenging, and yes, even difficult. Nothing worth attaining comes easy. The challenges of life are never ending, and the real life challenges of practice require astute problem solving skills as well as strong interpersonal abilities.
I hope and pray that veterinary school never becomes a simple on-line diploma mill and a simple apprenticeship program. We need to raise the bar, and never lower it. We all need to be pushed to strive to be better. We owe that to our patients, their owners and our general society.

Quality Distance Education

A number of the comments focus on the distance education that happened during the Covid pandemic and the poor learning outcomes that resulted. One should not conflate this period -- when untrained faculty were shifting to online instruction abruptly as a result of global crisis, and students were trying to absorb material while totally isolated at home and unable to come to campus, engage in intensive, hands-on lab work, or receive face-to-face mentoring from instructors -- with high-quality distance education provided by experienced and well-trained faculty, and hybrid programs that combine online didactic materials with intensive in-person labs and clinicals. There is no comparison between the two. Many professional programs in medicine, PT, OT, and other fields use hybrid models successfully. The AVMA should focus on developing regulations to ensure high quality distance education, not banning a modality that many DVM programs are already using effectively.

Ahna Brutlag, DVM, MS, DABT, DABVT
January 13, 2025 Permalink

Benefits of Distance Education

We support the use of distance education as one of several available tools benefiting the veterinary student experience. Many, if not all, veterinary schools currently use some form of distance education, as do other professional programs such as, human medicine, pharmacy, occupational therapy, and physical therapy.

We are in the unique position of working in veterinary telehealth as the owners/operators of Pet Poison Helpline (PPH), a 24/7 animal poison control center, and as adjunct veterinary faculty at the University of Minnesota’s College of Veterinary Medicine (UMN CVM). Based on our experience teaching the veterinary toxicology course at UMN CVM for more than 13 years, we feel strongly that, in specific and appropriate circumstances, distance education has the potential to greatly benefit veterinary students, particularly when considering certain specialties where the availability of credentialed, experienced, and/or qualified faculty may be limited. For example, veterinary toxicology is a very small specialty. There are approximately 100 Diplomates of the American Board of Veterinary Toxicology in North America and fewer than 35% of AVMA COE accredited veterinary colleges have one on staff. Given the limited number, veterinary colleges may have difficulty finding faculty willing or qualified to teach the subject. To solve this challenge, schools may contract with external specialists which, for reasons of logistics, curriculum structure, financial resources, and other factors may need to provide part or all the course via distance learning. This model of innovation and flexibility can also help mitigate the challenges veterinary schools face in other specialties such as radiology, pathology, etc. Further, when taught by knowledgeable, engaged individuals, the opportunity to develop long term one-on-one relationships with instructors via distance learning occurs, similar to how it does in person.

Distance learning, in particular live streaming and access to recorded lectures, allows students to remain current and focused with their studies while attending to real life situations such as illness, caregiver obligations, inclement weather, or environmental disasters. Additionally, the ability to watch (or re-watch) recorded lectures and other presentations with closed captioning is helpful for individuals where English is not their primary language or any student wishing to revisit specific aspects of a lecture.

Distance learning can also be effectively utilized for clinical rotations that do not have a live, hands-on component. At PPH, we have had the pleasure of hosting veterinary student extern rotations for the past 20 years. During rotations, students work one-on-one with our veterinarians by listening in on phone-based poison control consults, assisting with research projects, attending internal continuing education sessions, and more. All rotations were held onsite, at our poison control center in Minnesota, until 2018. At that point, because some of our veterinarians worked remotely from other states, we began to schedule part of our student’s time with those veterinarians via video conferencing. This setup was extremely successful from both the student and our veterinarian’s perspective. Based on these positive experiences, we quickly decided to continue hosting student externs in a fully remote capacity when our company temporarily switched to 100% remote work during the COVID-19 epidemic. Currently, we host 35-40 two week student rotations annually, the majority of which are fully remote. These rotations continue to be highly sought after by students and receive extremely positive feedback. The remote aspect, should students choose it (and most do), allows them to experience the unique specialty of veterinary toxicology without the expense and burden of travel. This also provides students a real-life experience of what it is like working in a remote setting, which is becoming increasingly common in veterinary medicine.

Respectfully submitted,

Ahna Brutlag, DVM, MS, DABT, DABVT, Vice President, Veterinary Services & Senior Veterinary Toxicologist
&
Lynn Rolland Hovda, RPh, DVM, MS, DACVIM, Director of Veterinary Medicine and Science

Pet Poison Helpline & SafetyCall International, LLC
Bloomington, MN USA
&
Adjunct Assistant Professors
Department of Veterinary and Biomedical Sciences
College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota
St. Paul, MN

Lance Roasa, DVM, MS, JD
January 14, 2025 Permalink

Distance Learning at Veterinary Schools

I have the unique opportunity to teach law, business and ethics at 18 veterinary schools in the US, mostly as part of the mandatory curriculum and co-founded drip.vet, which specializes in delivering educational materials for maximal learning engagement retention with technology. After performing a pedagogical literature review, researching and experiencing the issues first hand, I have come to the conclusion that a hybrid approach, with asynchronous, distance learning and in-person components is a superior method to deliver my subject matter.

I have presented materials to tens of thousands of students via all available methods, and each has advantages and disadvantages. The simple fact is that both technology and learning science has improved greatly over the last few decades. It is my opinion that the COE should consider distance education as an option, with proper guidelines for instructors.

I encourage the COE to consider that not all subject matter shares an equal need for in- person lectures and some subject matters do not have enough qualified experts to teach in-person in all institutions. The field of veterinary law is a perfect example, as legal requirements are found in 3 of the 8 core domains of the CBVE, but very few individuals are qualified to teach the required materials.

I have found that students that were otherwise silent during in-person settings would ask questions and speak in the chat function found in video conferencing. Distance education can actually allow more interaction than in person teaching because technology and pedagogy have both advanced greatly in the last several decades.

Lastly, distance education allows the best teachers to be teachers, spreading their ability to teach among multiple institutions. I have dedicated my career to teaching and exploring new ways to deliver materials in an engaging and interesting manner and I hope that this dedication to my craft yields a better learning experience for my students. Distance education allows me to reach students that would otherwise not be reachable. Distance education allows the best teachers to be teachers, and spread their ability to teach among multiple institutions.

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